In this face-to-face with former Prime Minister I. K. Gujral, The DayAfter Editor-in-Chief Sunil Dang and Think Tank Director, Yogendra Bali, asked some questions of national concern about the future of India. There was also a free and frank discussion about the Gujral Doctrine and the Gujral Report which laid the foundations of India’s foreign policy and the linguistic policy towards Urdu, one of the most important Indian languages. Here are some excerpts from the hour-long interaction with Gujral, just three days after he celebrated his 84th birthday on December 4. When asked to spell out the status of the Gujral Doctrine today, for which he would always be remembered as a leading maker of India’s foreign policy in the post-Nehru era, I. K. Gujral, the only Indian Prime Minister from Punjab so far, said that one of the first orders he issued to the External Affairs Ministry after being elected Prime Minister was: No acrimonious war. No war of words. This was the essence of the Gujral Doctrine of non-reciprocity of threats and provocation.

He said that is how a new idea entered the lexicon of diplomacy, that is "non-reciprocity" so far as neighbouring countries are concerned.

With his soft voice, but in firm thought and word, he asserted in the typical Gujral style: " I was firmly of the opinion and continue to believe that India will have a world role to play once it releases its energies from the region. Then you will be looked up to and would also have a future. That perception of mine continues to hold ground."

Gujral was asked a pointed question on Indo-Pak relations: Do you think we can bury our mental hackles and shackles and ever be friendly with Pakistan? His answer provided food for thought for both admirers and critics of the Gujral Doctrine. He said: "There is never a "never" in the world diplomatique. You must always keep in mind this fact. When I started the idea of making unilateral concessions on visas, the situation changed. I remember an anecdote of the time when I first went to Pakistan after partition. In 1982, I went to Peshawar—both my wife and I went. We went to see old carpets. You know Peshawar is famous as a market for old carpets coming from Central Asia. The shopkeeper was extremely hospitable, very polite. It was evening. He shut the doors. Peshawar can be very cold in winter. He was showing us the carpets; in the meanwhile his four-year old child came in and sat in his lap. And he said: "Abba bahar do police wale khade hain aur pooch rahe hain keh yahan kon Hindustani aye hain?" (Father, there are two policemen standing outside asking if any Indians have come here?) The father seemed very embarrassed but told the son that yes, they are Indian. There was wonder in the child’s eyes. He looked at us for some time and then said: "Abba, yeh to hamarey jaisey hi hain" (Dad, they are just like us). You do not have experiences like this unless you meet one another. TV was not there at that time. And one of the motives for my relaxation of visas was this.

Gujral narrated another telling experience of the damage that non-communication and ignorance could cause. He said: "We then went to Lahore and were invited over for a meal by the sometime neighbour of my father-in-law at Mazang Road in the days before partition. He had always treated my wife like his own daughter and was pleased to see us once again, after years. After the dinner, he took me aside and said: ‘You are like my son. I want to ask you something. Please tell me frankly: Is this a rule in India that every beautiful Muslim girl must marry a Hindu?’ I told him, no. But I realised that it was not his fault. It was lack of information. And these were the motives which made me change my policy."

With a twinkle in his eyes, Gujral suddenly remembered something which he shared with us. He said: "Only last week, a poetess from Pakistan, you must be knowing her name, Fehmida Rayaz, sent me a poem. And the upshot of the poem is: Tum hamare jaise kyon banna chahte ho? Ham to idhar jail mein hain, humein to yeh log transform hi nahin honey dete. Yeh aurat ki izzat nahin karte. Hamein puraney waqton me rakhna chahte hain. Kyon hamarey jaisey banna chahtey ho? She had said in that beautiful poem: "We live in a jail here. These people do not let us transform ourselves. They do not respect women. They want to keep us in olden times. Why do you want to be like us?’)"

When Sunil Dang said he would like to have a copy of that poem, Gujral promised to send him one gladly. He underlined that India had not one but 14 national languages, including Urdu, which must receive equal respect and dignity and opportunity to flourish.

Gujral stressed that India could do anything but not compromise on two items. He said: "We cannot compromise on secularism and we cannot surrender our territory to anybody, Kashmir included. Minus these two things, anything." He was speaking in the context of resolving problems with Pakistan.

During the final lap of the interaction, Sunil Dang fired a series of quick questions and Gujral fired back clear, unequivocal and firm answers.